[06/03/15 13:50:00] Vincent Massol: Hi Edy
[06/03/15 13:50:20] Vincent Massol: pinging you here since I'd like to progress fast on WebRss (as I've already started the move and I'd like to finish it today)
[06/03/15 13:50:28] Vincent Massol: is my last reply any convincing to you?
[06/03/15 13:50:56] Vincent Massol: said differently: this RSS feed is the stream of activity in the wiki :)
[06/03/15 13:51:35] Vincent Massol: and WebRss is only used by the activity stream macro, which shows that they are linked
[06/03/15 13:52:57] Eduard Moraru: Hi
[06/03/15 13:53:12] Vincent Massol: (note that I was the one to propose moving to rss-ui initially but it's not a business module)
[06/03/15 13:53:13] Eduard Moraru: well, if you want to see it that way, first of all the name is very bad
[06/03/15 13:53:22] Vincent Massol: yes th e name is bad for sure
[06/03/15 13:53:36] Vincent Massol: it's goes back all the way to TWiki
[06/03/15 13:53:37] Vincent Massol: :)
[06/03/15 13:53:52] Vincent Massol: but I cannot change it
[06/03/15 13:54:03] Vincent Massol: (that's for later when we implement aliases)
[06/03/15 13:54:04] Eduard Moraru: as far as I can see it also supports filtering by space, so I would imagine some apps wanting to use it instead of messing with the feed plugin
[06/03/15 13:54:25] Vincent Massol: yes apps wanting to create a feed should use the feed plugin
[06/03/15 13:54:28] Vincent Massol: (and feed component later on)
[06/03/15 13:54:35] Vincent Massol: this one is a specific RSS feed
[06/03/15 13:54:43] Vincent Massol: similar to the Blog RSS feed
[06/03/15 13:54:52] Vincent Massol: or to other RSs feeds
[06/03/15 13:54:56] Vincent Massol: Search RSS feed, tag rss feed, etc
[06/03/15 13:55:10] Vincent Massol: again each feed goes into the business module that requires it
[06/03/15 13:55:44] Vincent Massol: right now I don't see a better business module than activity stream, Sergiu suggested navigation but I don't like it
[06/03/15 13:55:46] Vincent Massol: too generic
[06/03/15 13:55:56] Vincent Massol: and too small a module if we put only this in it
[06/03/15 13:56:00] Vincent Massol: and not meaningful anyway
[06/03/15 13:56:17] Vincent Massol: we have a lot of other stuff for navigation
[06/03/15 13:56:20] Vincent Massol: like index app
[06/03/15 13:56:26] Eduard Moraru: we have this generic problem with multiple documents from xe
[06/03/15 13:56:32] Vincent Massol: WebRss could go in the index app
[06/03/15 13:56:38] Eduard Moraru: that are not really big enough to make a module for them
[06/03/15 13:56:39] Vincent Massol: if we consider it's an RSS feed of the AllDocs
[06/03/15 13:56:53] Vincent Massol: but I'm not sure it's better than in activitystream
[06/03/15 13:56:59] Eduard Moraru: do we still have a recent changes panel?
[06/03/15 13:57:06] Eduard Moraru: it might go along with that
[06/03/15 13:57:23] Vincent Massol: we do, it's in panels probably
[06/03/15 13:57:53] Vincent Massol: Recently visited, recently created, recently modified
[06/03/15 13:57:57] Eduard Moraru: well, a recent changes panel is properly place in Panels as a WebRss page is properly placed in feed-ui :)
[06/03/15 13:58:24] Eduard Moraru: do we want a recent-changes application?
[06/03/15 13:58:29] Vincent Massol: no, panels is not the right place for sure
[06/03/15 13:58:30] Eduard Moraru: or something along that line?
[06/03/15 13:58:42] Vincent Massol: panels should only contain technical panel pages
[06/03/15 13:58:51] Vincent Massol: all panels impl should go in their business modules
[06/03/15 13:59:03] Eduard Moraru: right
[06/03/15 13:59:09] Vincent Massol: Recent blog posts for ex is correctly in the blog app
[06/03/15 13:59:17] Eduard Moraru: and the business logic of recent changes panel sounds to me similar to WebRss's logic
[06/03/15 13:59:24] Vincent Massol: yes I agree with that
[06/03/15 13:59:32] Vincent Massol: and activity stream is the same
[06/03/15 13:59:36] Vincent Massol: it's about recent changes
[06/03/15 13:59:39] Vincent Massol: if you remember btw
[06/03/15 13:59:47] Vincent Massol: we have a WhatsNew page
[06/03/15 13:59:59] Vincent Massol: and we replaced it with the activitystream
[06/03/15 14:00:03] Vincent Massol: they're all about recent changes
[06/03/15 14:00:33] Vincent Massol: index app is not about changes
[06/03/15 14:00:36] Vincent Massol: it's about all the stuff
[06/03/15 14:00:39] Vincent Massol: (not just the recent one)
[06/03/15 14:00:44] Eduard Moraru: then maybe we need an activity module that is parent of both recent changes stuff/module and activity stream module
[06/03/15 14:01:01] Vincent Massol: yes I'm just not sure we need so fine grained submodules
[06/03/15 14:01:06] Eduard Moraru: since we have more modules on activity in one way or another
[06/03/15 14:01:16] Vincent Massol: activity ui is already pretty small
[06/03/15 14:01:24] Vincent Massol: basically one page
[06/03/15 14:01:26] Eduard Moraru: yes, but it's pretty specialized
[06/03/15 14:01:28] Vincent Massol: the activity macro
[06/03/15 14:01:32] Eduard Moraru: a macro basically
[06/03/15 14:01:48] Eduard Moraru: just does not feel right to jam that page (WebRss) in there
[06/03/15 14:02:11] Vincent Massol: we could rename xwiki-platform-activitystream into xwiki-platform-changes if you prefer
[06/03/15 14:02:23] Vincent Massol: and have ActivityMacro.xml in xwiki-platform-changes-ui
[06/03/15 14:03:01] Vincent Massol: the problem is going to differentiate activitystream from the rest of the changes
[06/03/15 14:03:04] Vincent Massol: what you meant is:
[06/03/15 14:03:32] Vincent Massol: xwiki-platform-changes
  |_ xwiki-platform-changes-activitystream/
  |_ xwiki-platfotm-changes-<other>/
[06/03/15 14:03:38] Vincent Massol: but what is <other>?
[06/03/15 14:03:49] Eduard Moraru: changes-panels
[06/03/15 14:03:56] Vincent Massol: WebRss is not a panel
[06/03/15 14:04:01] Eduard Moraru: and changes-rss ?
[06/03/15 14:04:04] Vincent Massol: nah
[06/03/15 14:04:10] Eduard Moraru: too specific
[06/03/15 14:04:14] Vincent Massol: with this logic we'll have tons of one page modules
[06/03/15 14:04:25] Vincent Massol: too much I feel
[06/03/15 14:04:55] Eduard Moraru: we have:
 changes-activitystream-api
 changes-activitystream-ui
 changes-ui
[06/03/15 14:04:55] Vincent Massol: let's think about other pages that would go in changes?
[06/03/15 14:05:08] Vincent Massol: do we have existing modules that would also be related to changes?
[06/03/15 14:05:33] Vincent Massol:  changes-activitystream-api
 changes-activitystream-ui
 changes-ui

is not symmetrical
[06/03/15 14:05:34] Eduard Moraru: I would still call it activity, not changes
[06/03/15 14:05:45] Vincent Massol: yes activity is better
[06/03/15 14:06:07] Vincent Massol: xwiki-platform-activity/
  |_ xwiki-platform-activity-stream/
  |_ xwiki-platform-activity-ui/
[06/03/15 14:06:27] Vincent Massol: with activity-stream being only the api
[06/03/15 14:06:32] Vincent Massol: ?
[06/03/15 14:07:17] Eduard Moraru: tempted to say xwiki-platform-activity-api and xwiki-platform-activity-ui :)
[06/03/15 14:07:26] Vincent Massol: yep
[06/03/15 14:07:33] Vincent Massol: that's what I was doing :)
[06/03/15 14:07:41] Vincent Massol: (but without the renaming)
[06/03/15 14:08:01] Vincent Massol: I agree that the rename feels better
[06/03/15 14:08:07] Eduard Moraru: and we also have eventstream
[06/03/15 14:08:13] Eduard Moraru: that nobody touched in a long time
[06/03/15 14:08:16] Vincent Massol: indeed
[06/03/15 14:08:22] Eduard Moraru: which is supposed to superseed activitystream
[06/03/15 14:08:26] Vincent Massol: that should go in activity too I guess
[06/03/15 14:08:35] Eduard Moraru: yes
[06/03/15 14:09:05] Vincent Massol: would the feed module be a submodule of platform-activity?
[06/03/15 14:09:12] Vincent Massol: or should it stay outside?
[06/03/15 14:09:30] Eduard Moraru: would make sense, since it is about activity
[06/03/15 14:09:33] Eduard Moraru: feed is just a format
[06/03/15 14:09:52] Vincent Massol: what about messagestream?
[06/03/15 14:10:06] Eduard Moraru: not really
[06/03/15 14:10:17] Eduard Moraru: we are now mixing messages with events/activity which turned out to be bad
[06/03/15 14:10:33] Vincent Massol: yeah I think I agree
[06/03/15 14:10:55] Vincent Massol: what about statistics?
[06/03/15 14:11:06] Vincent Massol: they should probably stay outside even though they're also about activity
[06/03/15 14:11:16] Vincent Massol: (at least for now)
[06/03/15 14:11:35] Eduard Moraru: yeah, I would keep it aside for now, see how this works out
[06/03/15 14:11:37] Vincent Massol: watchlist?
[06/03/15 14:11:47] Vincent Massol: this is typically about activity
[06/03/15 14:11:50] Eduard Moraru: good candidate
[06/03/15 14:12:03] Vincent Massol: it's the notification part of the AS
[06/03/15 14:12:05] Eduard Moraru: since it`s basically a delivery method of activity
[06/03/15 14:12:08] Vincent Massol: yep
[06/03/15 14:12:31] Vincent Massol: so let's see what this gives us in term of directory structure
[06/03/15 14:15:15] Vincent Massol: xwiki-platform-activity/
  |_ xwiki-platform-activity-stream/
    |_ xwiki-platform-activity-stream-api/
    |_ xwiki-platform-activity-stream-ui/
  |_ xwiki-platform-activity-eventstream/
  |_ xwiki-platform-activity-feed/
  |_ xwiki-platform-activity-watchlist/
    |_ xwiki-platform-activity-watchlist-api/
    |_ xwiki-platform-activity-watchlist-ui/
  |_ xwiki-platform-activity-<other>/
[06/03/15 14:15:19] Vincent Massol: not better than before :)
[06/03/15 14:16:02] Eduard Moraru: do we need xwiki-platform-activity as a parent module?
[06/03/15 14:16:06] Vincent Massol: (we need to place: WebRss and the 3 recent panels)
[06/03/15 14:16:13] Eduard Moraru: I would move its children one level up
[06/03/15 14:16:32] Vincent Massol: I think it's good to group them together
[06/03/15 14:16:41] Vincent Massol: to not have 300 top level modules
[06/03/15 14:16:46] Eduard Moraru: makes modules a bit harder to find
[06/03/15 14:16:56] Vincent Massol: or easier to find
[06/03/15 14:16:57] Vincent Massol: :)
[06/03/15 14:17:12] Vincent Massol: (if you don't know the names from the outset)
[06/03/15 14:17:17] Eduard Moraru: well, yes, we are doign this right now, so no need for exceptions
[06/03/15 14:17:51] Vincent Massol: if we move them up one level it's the way they are right now
[06/03/15 14:17:57] Vincent Massol: we still haven't progressed on where to put WebRss anyway, whether we move up or not
[06/03/15 14:18:36] Vincent Massol: at least
[06/03/15 14:18:38] Eduard Moraru: I still see some advantages in having -panels and -rss
[06/03/15 14:18:41] Vincent Massol: we have identified all possible candidates
[06/03/15 14:18:46] Vincent Massol: for where to put it
[06/03/15 14:18:48] Eduard Moraru: since distributions could specify what they want to depend on
[06/03/15 14:19:04] Eduard Moraru: maybe they don`t want all the UI pages
[06/03/15 14:19:04] Vincent Massol: (ie all modules related to activity)
[06/03/15 14:19:16] Vincent Massol: sure but with this logic
[06/03/15 14:19:22] Vincent Massol: we need one page modules
[06/03/15 14:19:23] Vincent Massol: :)
[06/03/15 14:19:27] Eduard Moraru: not exactly
[06/03/15 14:19:35] Eduard Moraru: one module per group of pages (like panels)
[06/03/15 14:19:39] Vincent Massol: for me activtiy stream and WebRss go together
[06/03/15 14:19:46] Vincent Massol: again because activty stream is the only user
[06/03/15 14:20:01] Vincent Massol: if we renamed WebRss to ActivityStreamRss you wouldn't disagree I'm sure
[06/03/15 14:20:13] Vincent Massol: (and it is exactly what WebRss is)
[06/03/15 14:20:32] Eduard Moraru: would probably make sense for the stream-ui module
[06/03/15 14:20:37] Vincent Massol: it's a feature of the activity stream macro
[06/03/15 14:20:51] Vincent Massol: to have it in RSS format
[06/03/15 14:20:59] Eduard Moraru: do we have some backwards compatibility to worry about?
[06/03/15 14:21:02] Eduard Moraru: in the page name?
[06/03/15 14:21:06] Vincent Massol: yes
[06/03/15 14:21:09] Vincent Massol: that's why I don't want to rename it
[06/03/15 14:21:11] Vincent Massol: (for now)
[06/03/15 14:21:15] Vincent Massol: (till we support aliases)
[06/03/15 14:21:24] Vincent Massol: we have the same for most of our pages
[06/03/15 14:21:27] Eduard Moraru: you said AS was the only one using it :)
[06/03/15 14:21:29] Vincent Massol: they are wrongly located/or name
[06/03/15 14:21:52] Eduard Moraru: but sure, we could do this with the mention that it needs to be fixed in the future
[06/03/15 14:21:57] Vincent Massol: I lied just a bit :)
[06/03/15 14:22:04] Vincent Massol: XWikiPreferences is also using it
[06/03/15 14:22:11] Vincent Massol: it uses BlogRss and WebRss
[06/03/15 14:22:16] Vincent Massol: simply to have them in the HTTP meta
[06/03/15 14:22:22] Vincent Massol: this needs to be fixed at some point
[06/03/15 14:22:27] Vincent Massol: with an UIXP
[06/03/15 14:22:58] Vincent Massol: (I didn't mention it because it doesn't change the rationale)
[06/03/15 14:23:06] Eduard Moraru: well
[06/03/15 14:23:19] Eduard Moraru: if we see WebRss as the wiki's main RSS entry point
[06/03/15 14:23:24] Eduard Moraru: then it's not really about AS anymore :)
[06/03/15 14:23:32] Vincent Massol: that doesn't mean anything
[06/03/15 14:23:36] Vincent Massol: "main RSS entry point"
[06/03/15 14:23:48] Vincent Massol: the Blog is there too
[06/03/15 14:23:49] Eduard Moraru: yeah, the rss button in the browser
[06/03/15 14:23:58] Vincent Massol: it's not a main rss entry point either
[06/03/15 14:24:08] Vincent Massol: they're just about well known RSS feeds in the wiki
[06/03/15 14:24:15] Vincent Massol: and any app should be allowed to register there
[06/03/15 14:25:20] Eduard Moraru: so the connections is a weak business logic connection with AS, not a technical one
[06/03/15 14:25:38] Eduard Moraru: an WebRss can just as well exist (and it does) without AS
[06/03/15 14:25:43] Eduard Moraru: and be useful
[06/03/15 14:25:57] Vincent Massol: this is true for any 2 pages that don't need eahc other to function
[06/03/15 14:25:58] Eduard Moraru: while BlogRss does not exist without the Blog App
[06/03/15 14:26:24] Vincent Massol: well the AS feature would cease to work
[06/03/15 14:26:37] Vincent Massol: rss="true" parameter of the activity macro
[06/03/15 14:26:40] Vincent Massol: so no they're not separate
[06/03/15 14:26:53] Eduard Moraru: yes, but that does not make WebRss depend on AS in any way
[06/03/15 14:27:06] Eduard Moraru: while for blog, BlogRss depends on Blog App and Blog App depends on BlogRss
[06/03/15 14:27:06] Vincent Massol: actually this is not true
[06/03/15 14:27:29] Vincent Massol: the only reason that WebRss doesn't depend on activity macro code is because we've not taken the time to refactor it
[06/03/15 14:27:32] Vincent Massol: but we need to
[06/03/15 14:27:40] Vincent Massol: as right now it's wrong
[06/03/15 14:27:49] Vincent Massol: and is not sending the same changes as activity macro
[06/03/15 14:28:00] Eduard Moraru: so it is just saying that they kind of do the same thing... and AS decided to link to WebRss... but that`s about it... WebRss was there before AS and is still relevant on its own
[06/03/15 14:28:06] Vincent Massol: it was just a leftover in the AS rework
[06/03/15 14:28:21] Vincent Massol: the whatsnew page was rewritten but not the WebRss one
[06/03/15 14:28:25] Eduard Moraru: yes, that could be true as well
[06/03/15 14:28:28] Vincent Massol: said differently they should have the same source
[06/03/15 14:28:38] Eduard Moraru: true
[06/03/15 14:29:07] Eduard Moraru: 2 views of the same stream
[06/03/15 14:29:10] Vincent Massol: yes
[06/03/15 14:29:22] Vincent Massol: it's important because
[06/03/15 14:29:25] Vincent Massol: when we add app events for ex
[06/03/15 14:29:30] Vincent Massol: we need to have them in the RSS feed too
[06/03/15 14:29:41] Eduard Moraru: agreed
[06/03/15 14:30:26] Eduard Moraru: would be nice though to have activity-api, activity-macro, acivity-rss, activity-panels :)
[06/03/15 14:30:33] Vincent Massol: nah too much
[06/03/15 14:30:43] Vincent Massol: I really fail to see the need
[06/03/15 14:30:45] Eduard Moraru: all of them using acitvity api
[06/03/15 14:30:54] Vincent Massol: activity-api and -ui is enough
[06/03/15 14:31:27] Vincent Massol: api is the source and ui are all the UI pages using the source
[06/03/15 14:31:56] Vincent Massol: with this logic Edy
[06/03/15 14:32:13] Vincent Massol: we would have -panels modules for all modules using panels
[06/03/15 14:32:16] Vincent Massol: like Blog, etc
[06/03/15 14:32:18] Vincent Massol: it's a lot
[06/03/15 14:32:22] Vincent Massol: and overkill ATM IMO
[06/03/15 14:32:27] Eduard Moraru: right
[06/03/15 14:33:45] Eduard Moraru: slight thing about activity-feed is that it is a generic plugin, not depending on activity-api... generates an RSS feed out of anything
[06/03/15 14:34:16] Eduard Moraru: the business logic of RSS is about activity, yes, but the module itself is just a format converter
[06/03/15 14:34:23] Eduard Moraru: maybe this is not a problem
[06/03/15 14:34:46] Vincent Massol: so what I'm proposing right now (not to be too ambitious)
[06/03/15 14:35:14] Vincent Massol: is to recognize that we would like WebRss to be the RSS view of the activity stream (and rewrite it based on the same source in the future) and thus move WebRss to activitystream-ui
[06/03/15 14:35:17] Vincent Massol: wdyt?
[06/03/15 14:36:09] Eduard Moraru: sure, using the same activity source is the compelling argument to me
[06/03/15 14:36:20] Vincent Massol: ok cool :)
[06/03/15 14:36:36] Vincent Massol: do you agree for me to send a link to this interesting discussion in reply to the mail?
[06/03/15 14:36:46] Vincent Massol: (I find it useful to remember in the future)
[06/03/15 14:36:59] Eduard Moraru: of course
[06/03/15 14:37:06] Vincent Massol: ok thanks a lot for the brainstorming!
[06/03/15 14:37:12] Eduard Moraru: you too :)